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Rule Changes
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The Grizzly Bore
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:54 pm    Post subject: Rule Changes Reply with quote

Does anyone have any ideas for rules/format changes for any of The Grades competitions???

I'd like to get rid of the draw (surprise, surprise) but I wouldn't fancy going down the road of power plays and substitutes, like they've done with the one day games (for the moment).

Any other ideas? 20/20 for all cup games??
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MrPurple
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about 10 overs per bowler in grades matches. That forces greater involvement, introduces the "5th bowler conundrum" and should generally make the game more exciting.

The fact that Portcullis seem to have more bowlers than you can shake a stick at this year is a complete coincidence. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why degenerate the cup comps by suggesting a 20 over thrash. Is this only to please the poor [deleted] who are placed firmly under thumbprints so they can get home early. Utter [deleted].

one suggestion whilst keeping the draw, would be to award bonus points for the team batting 2nd by getting say 15-20 runs away from the score set by the team batting 1st. The bonus would have to be worth it, say five extra points, to make it worthwhile.

and another thing, why reduce bowlers yet further. 12 is a good figure as it forces the use of at least four bowlers to be used - more than some teams actually have at their disposal at times.

anyhow off to oz soon to start having a go at them convicts. [deleted] shame how my transfer coincides with the next ashes series really.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
why degenerate the cup comps by suggesting a 20 over thrash. Is this only to please the poor [deleted] who are placed firmly under thumbprints so they can get home early. Utter [deleted].


Several reasons. How about these for starters.

1. It would allow a lot more flexibilty in the way the cup matches are played. They wouldn't have to be on a Sunday, but could instead be played midweek. Fielding a team on a Saturday and a Sunday can be a big problem for many clubs, and allowing the game to be played during the week might help to get a bit more interest in the competition and make it less of a pain to organise.

2. We have an ever dwindling number of council pitches available, and fiding a place for the cup matches on a Sunday is bcoming increasingly difficult. Since twenty20 games can be played in an evening, this would help to solve this problem, and also the problem of trying to fit in rained off cup matches.

3. It would allow the semi finals and finals, or perhaps all the finals, to be played on the same day. We then have an opportunity to put on several short and exciting games in - say - Duthie Park, and make a day of it. Have other attractions on at the same time for the public so they can watch the games or be otherwise entertained. Stuff for the kids too - bouncy castles, stalls, beer tent, maybe a game of Kwik Cricket or two. Make and effort and showcase cricket in front of the whole city. The council want to move us out of the parks to make room for special events. Wouldn't it be a good idea to take that challenge on and actually present a special event for based around cricket?

Quote:

one suggestion whilst keeping the draw, would be to award bonus points for the team batting 2nd by getting say 15-20 runs away from the score set by the team batting 1st. The bonus would have to be worth it, say five extra points, to make it worthwhile.


The draw is a dead duck. It is illogical and an anachronism. No amount of tinkering with the points system is going to change the fact that the team that bats first has to do more to win a match than the team that bats second.

Quote:

and another thing, why reduce bowlers yet further. 12 is a good figure as it forces the use of at least four bowlers to be used - more than some teams actually have at their disposal at times.


Changing from 15 to 12 overs per bowler didn't actually change the number of bowlers needed that much. Although possible in theory, it'd be rare for any team to bowl all 45 with just 3 bowlers, and most would use at least 4 anyway. Dropping the number of overs to 10 mandates at least one more bowler and possibly two, and also brings some interesting tactical problems as well.

Oh - and congratulations on being the first to trigger the newly installed automatic word censor. Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why delete the word '[deleted]'?

anyhow I hear your points about pitch availability but you still need a pitch to play whatever length of game you play.

as primarily a bowler and one that thinks the draw is still ok (my own opinion) I agree that the team batting first has more to do to get the win but surely it isnt all about batting is it. Surely it takes some skill of the bowlers to get batsmen out doesnt it or do your bowlers just trundle in and hope for the batsmen not to score the runs. That in its own can lead to negative stuff.

as I say only my opinion and I look forward to two day games in oz that still have the draw that are played over consecutive weekends. the aussies seem to enjoy the draw and they are top in world cricket.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:

as primarily a bowler and one that thinks the draw is still ok (my own opinion) I agree that the team batting first has more to do to get the win but surely it isnt all about batting is it. Surely it takes some skill of the bowlers to get batsmen out doesnt it or do your bowlers just trundle in and hope for the batsmen not to score the runs. That in its own can lead to negative stuff.


Well that's pretty much my whole point. Why should the bowlers in the first innings get a free ride? They know they can just "trundle in and hope for the batsmen not to score the runs" and then hope that their own batsmen will do the hard work for them.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: The draa Reply with quote

Clubs opinions on the draw are perhaps influenced by how many bowlers they have at a given time.

For years Artos hated the draw with a passion always going for a win.Last year we played virtually the whole season with one decent bowler.We had to use our quality wicky to bowl,we were getting 12 good overs per match and teams were running up test scores against us.

About half way through the season we had to change our philosophy completely Crying or Very sad and began to play for the draw in hope of avoiding relegation.

We managed that and became quite good at playing for the draw,it was actually quite satisfiying to frustrate the h.e.l.l. out certain smug opposition players who had just ripped our bowling apart. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrPurple wrote:
Well that's pretty much my whole point. Why should the bowlers in the first innings get a free ride? They know they can just "trundle in and hope for the batsmen not to score the runs" and then hope that their own batsmen will do the hard work for them.


well if your team has bowlers that have first go of a pitch, especially the ones in aberdeenshire, and just trudle in then I suggest you look at their mental state. surely the idea is to bowl out the opposition as cheaply as possible, is that not the general idea of cricket?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
surely the idea is to bowl out the opposition as cheaply as possible, is that not the general idea of cricket?


I'm not specifically talking about any particular teams bowlers, and you're not answering the question. If bowling out the opposition as cheaply as possible is the general idea of cricket, then why is it OK to allow one of the teams to win a game without having done that?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm for the draw, and not just for the lack-of-bowlers reason given by Sudkurve above.

In my mind, it keeps the game slightly (just slightly) interesting right up until the end of the 90th over. I've played in cup games where its been a foregone conclusion that the team batting 1st has won, and having 20 overs of absolutely meaningless stuff at the end is painful and is a waste of everyone's time.

At least with the draw you've still got the chance of winkelling something out right until the end - whether it be six wickets in the last over to win it (never say die, Children of Fergie attitude) or just trying to get that probably-crucial couple of wickets and couple of points.

I take the point of the anti-draw brigade, and it may be an anachronism (which I presume is some sort of spider), but I'm all for keeping it.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that in all cricket that plays one innings per side matches you win if you take ten wickets for less runs than the other side has managed to score, no? doesnt matter then if you bowl first or second if you can manage to do this.

and I wasnt pointing at any particular team when I commented about bowlers who may 'trundle in' using that expression as we do. Just merely pointing out that I would find it strange if any bowler didnt fancy bowling first up with a new ball on an average aberdeenshire wicket.

ps the website is pretty good too and look forward to seeing the scores of all grades every week.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
I thought that in all cricket that plays one innings per side matches you win if you take ten wickets for less runs than the other side has managed to score, no?


Confused Um - no.

Every game I've played in we've taken our wickets for exactly the same number of runs as the other side has managed to score. (Unless I was doing the score book, in which case pretty much anything can happen.) Rolling Eyes

OK - that was a bit of a cheap shot because I think I probably understand what you were trying to say there, but I must admit I'm baffled by your argument. On the one hand you say you should have to bowl a side out to win, and then you say that you'd find it strange if any bowler didn't fancy bowling first up with a new ball on an average aberdeenshire wicket. But the fact is - bowling first up you don't have to bowl the other side out to win.

And that's my main issue with the draw in grades cricket - the fact that one side has a different objective to the other.

In the Australian two day games you refered to, just like in test matches, both sides have the same objective. To win the game they have to bowl out the opposition and score more runs. If neither team does that, the result is a draw, and rightly so.

But in grades cricket, the team that bowls first (which is effectively the one that wins the toss), does not have to bowl the other side out to win. Only the team that bowls second has to do that.

Boring games are played by boring teams, and Art Isan is absolutely right that some games that end in a win are tedious compared to a closely fought draw. But that isn't the point. It's not about whether or not draws are, ipso facto, boring, because they quite clearly aren't. It's about making it an even contest between two sides - a contest where both sides have to do the same thing to get a result. A contest that doesn't confer the advantage of not having to bowl the other side out on the vaguaries of a tossed coin.

And the other reason I think the draw should go is because I hate spiders.



Glad you like the website though. There's a lot of work gone into it, and (although it's not apparent at the moment), a lot more going on in the background. You're going to love the results section.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the point I am making is that if you set out a the beginning of your fielding innings to attack and try to bowl out the opposition, ie get the blighters out as cheap as possible, then your team will have a better chance of winning as you will have hopefully a low score to chase.

admittedly this does not always happen as there have and will always be batsmen who are good players - 'deleted' (saved it happening automatically)

Therefore if the bowlers turn up with a lazy attitude (which I have seen before) then this wont happen.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Suggestion Reply with quote

How about this?? Just for discussion.....

80 overs a game

1st innings – 40 overs max.
2nd innings – remaining overs (80 minus innings 1)

Batting points – 1 per 25 runs (max=10)
Bowling points – 1 per wicket (max=10)

Automatic 30 pts total for a win.
Draw –Accrued bonus pts plus 10 pts shared between the sides as outlined below.

1st inns Team batting 1st Team batting 2nd
40 5 5
38 6 4
36 7 3
34 8 2
32 9 1
30 10 0


In the event of incomplete match (rain, earthquake, alien invasion, war etc.):
Match abandoned if less than 60 complete overs bowled.
If 60 overs have been bowled, result shall be a draw, 5 pts to each side (regardless of overs bowled in 1st innings) plus any accrued bonus points.

Bowling restrictions – as exists, max. 12 overs.
Fielding restrictions – 2 men in recognized catching positions, other than the bowler and wicket keeper.

Note: for ease of definition, a fielder shall be deemed to be in a catching position when approximately 1 wicket length (or less) away from the striking batsman (at the point of delivery). A no-ball shall be called if, in either of the umpires opinion, there are not enough fielders in catching range (as defined above).
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

did I read correctly here, you actually kept some kind of draw in your piece?

only ask I have is why reduce the game by ten overs from what it is now? Didnt put you down as one of those players that seem to play cricket as less as possible and seem to turn up and then gurn on about wanting home early?

I note that the start time has been brought forward to 1pm. soon you will all be playing morning cricket just like we used to do in the junior league.
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